Russia fumes NATO 'trying to inflict defeat on us' after tanks sent to Ukraine

[u/UnlikelyRabbit4648]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-fumes-nato-trying-to-inflict-defeat-on-us-after-tanks-sent-to-ukraine/ar-AA16IGIw

[u/luketwo1]

West: *sends weapons to defeat russia*
Russia: YOU'RE SENDING WEAPONS TO DEFEAT US!
West: Yes?

[u/mithu_raj → u/luketwo1]

Also west: sends 20 year old leftover junk and cripples mighty Russian army

[u/Niqulaz → u/mithu_raj]

Well, to be honest, that 20 year old leftover junk, was designed to oppose the tech Russia is currently deploying to the battlefield, because all their best stuff has already been blow up.

The Challenger and the Leopard were both more or less built in a response to the T-72. Once Russia has to resort to T-62 and T-55, there really wont be a need for even the 20 year old junk, you can just keep attaching M72 launchers to drones with zip-ties while laughing.

[u/HabseligkeitDerLiebe → u/mithu_raj]

A lot of the equipment actually is Cold War designs, so it's more like 40 year old stuff.

[u/algorhythmer → u/HabseligkeitDerLiebe]

And it was specifically designed to defeat the Cold War stuff Russia is still using to this day.

[u/wehooper4 → u/algorhythmer]

And all of the engineers that worked on them and hence retired long ago are watching the news and grinning ear to ear. That thing they worked their ass off on in the 80’s is working even better than they ever imagined.

[u/tabooblue32 → u/wehooper4]

Even better than the Ukrainian farmers that were just...stealing tanks because they were in the way.

[u/Rix60 → u/HabseligkeitDerLiebe]

No sir you forgot the 70s we're 30 years ago easy mistake to.... Oh God.

[u/Smothdude → u/Rix60]

Every damn time

[u/LesserSpottedSpycrab → u/mithu_raj]

NATO Member: "Hey Boss, found this bucket of old rusty nails. What d'ya want me to do with em?"

NATO: "I have just the thing..."

[u/Hellknightx → u/LesserSpottedSpycrab]

Now I'm imagining Home Alone, with Russian goons stepping on homemade nail traps and falling comically down stairs.

[u/DarthSatoris → u/mithu_raj]

That's the funniest part of this whole thing.

Ukraine is beating them back so bad with our leftover and almost-decommission-age gear, that Russia has had to resort to bring out equipment from the 60s and 70s because all their newer toys have been destroyed already.

[u/TheUnknownDane → u/DarthSatoris]

Ukraine is beating them back so bad with our leftover and almost-decommission-age gear

Just wanna make clear that part of the reason that Ukraine is receiving Soviet Era gear is not for the lols, but instead that it's equipment that they know how to quickly make use of, whereas any NATO counter part would need intensive training for both use and repair.

[u/Neville_Lynwood → u/TheUnknownDane]

Though as I understand they are also receiving more modern training right now as well.

So not only is Ukraine making good use of the older equipment, they're priming themselves for newer and better stuff on the fly. While Russia doesn't even have new stuff, and sure as hell don't look like they'd manage to train anyone for it either.

[u/ClassBShareHolder]

“Inflict defeat”

Playing the victim while being the aggressor.

“Stop hitting back, you’re hurting me!”

[u/ShadedPsyche → u/ClassBShareHolder]

Calling for sympathy because your arm hurts on account of stabbing someone fifty times.

[u/Howhighwefly → u/ShadedPsyche]

Your back hurt my hand while I was stabbing you in the back.

[u/ShadedPsyche → u/Howhighwefly]

Oh God, how dare I.

[u/niberungvalesti → u/ClassBShareHolder]

Typical bullying narcissist behavior to flip the morality of the situation back at the victims.

"Stop hurting me! I'm only hurting you because I love you want to install a puppet government and steal your valuable lands and resources!"

[u/OptimalFlight101 → u/niberungvalesti]

Remember when I told you I wouldn't invade you in exchange for your nuclear weapons. Wasn't that a funny joke?

-Russia

[u/TheApathyParty3 → u/niberungvalesti]

It's more sinister than being a bullying narcissist. Since Soviet times, Russia and the KGB's strategy has always been to befuddle the truth and skew any information that people get. They've been doing it for over a century.

Putin's an old KGB agent and he's using the old playbook, but I honestly think he's so old and geriatric that he doesn't understand that the world doesn't work in that same way in the modern information age. Maybe in Russia where he controls practically everything, but this sort of thing just sounds comical to the rest of us. The guy is still living in the USSR c. 1975.

[u/BackOld3468 → u/TheApathyParty3]

Putin's an old KGB agent and he's using the old playbook, but I honestly think he's so old and geriatric that he doesn't understand that the world doesn't work in that same way in the modern information age.

Completely agree on this one. Planning their invasion for several days just proves this. This guy definitely needs an updated OS. Unfortunately, this will never happen since his KGB school just "seals" everything he knows not leaving a chance for the update. Sad though.

[u/guyincognito121 → u/TheApathyParty3]

Unfortunately, we do actually have Americans (and people in other countries with free access to information) walking around who actually get taken in by this stuff--and not just a few nuts here and there. So I'm not sure that he's really as out of touch as you say.

[u/U_L_Uus → u/ClassBShareHolder]

Reminds me of the Cartman vs. Wendy fight in a way

[u/ukie7 → u/ClassBShareHolder]

The problem is ruzzia is so stuck ideologically in the past that for them Ukraine is theirs, and anyone going against them is in the wrong and the aggressor.

They actually believe what they are spewing. Their regime and most of their people.

[u/uranus_be_cold → u/ClassBShareHolder]

"trying".

[u/FOXHOUND9000]

Yes. That's the point. You fucking idiots.

[u/Cy41995 → u/FOXHOUND9000]

It's only been 30 years, did they already forget how the Cold War worked?

[u/Fordiman → u/Cy41995]

Can't wait for Swan Lake 2.0.

[u/OnlyRoke → u/Fordiman]

The digital age really surprised us all with how Cold War 2 is going.

How long until the eBay of Pigs?

[u/Dealan79 → u/Cy41995]

I think Cold War 2.0 really has surprised them. Just a few years ago they had a US President, a number of his staff, and several Senators and Congressmen in their back pocket. They also had a former German Chancellor literally on the payroll, an oligarch's son nominated for a position in the English House of Lords, allies in growing far-right parties throughout Europe, and what they thought was a reliable puppet government in Hungary that could block any NATO action even in the worst case scenario everything else failed. Europe was heavily dependent on Russian oil. They probably thought that they had enough diplomatic, clandestine, and financial leverage to march in unopposed, and once that didn't happen it triggered shocked Pikachu faces.

[u/BloodshotPizzaBox → u/Dealan79]

Just a few years ago they had a US President, a number of his staff, and several Senators and Congressmen in their back pocket.

Also at least one highly-placed counterintelligence agent in the FBI, from the looks of things. Allegedly.

[u/JesusSavesForHalf → u/BloodshotPizzaBox]

Again. FFS.

[u/Risley → u/JesusSavesForHalf]

Yeah but look at our intelligence so far on this war. It looks like we’ve got quite a few paid informants as well. Such is life in the spy world.

[u/Januarywednesday → u/Dealan79]

Which German Chancellor?

[u/Dealan79 → u/Januarywednesday]

Gerhard Schröder, at least until May 2022.

[u/Atomic-Decay → u/Dealan79]

Unbelievable that he stayed on the board until May. Three months of war crimes and he couldn’t give a flying Fuck. Only left because he had no choice. Disgusting

[u/andrewnormous → u/Dealan79]

The scariest part is some of what you said is still true or can become true again very easily.

[u/Neville_Lynwood → u/andrewnormous]

Gonna be at least a little harder in the future. This failure in Ukraine is being very effectively recorded by countless methods and stored in great detail on the internet. So much of Russia's failure is so clearly on display.

It's much harder for people to genuinely push for supporting Russia in light of all that.

[u/alpacafox → u/FOXHOUND9000]

Actually Lloyd Austin said it best: We need to make sure Russia won't be able to do something like this again.

[u/Kenaston → u/[deleted]]

I want Russia to lose.

[u/Jaket333 → u/Kenaston]

And badly.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jaket333]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/UglyInThMorning → u/Kenaston]

Yeah, like if they just leave they will 100 percent try to do it again. Shatter their military and it’ll at least take longer before they get all invade-y again. And it makes a good example to other countries that may want to start shit.

[u/JarlVarl → u/UglyInThMorning]

tbh the best scenario would be that russia just leaves ukraine and moldova (I wish Georgia as well, but they're so far away for most of us I don't see it happening), they join nato and eu, meaning russia can't do shit even if they rebuild their army, which will take them decades (their economy won't be the same to spend on all that equipment and even if they build them they would have to start from scrath for some parts because they can't be imported due to the restrictions (which we hopefully will keep).

[u/DoubleSolid2522 → u/Kenaston]

Russia has already lost. The us and Europe will support ukraine indefinitely. Russia will crack in time and go back to the dark ages.

[u/RobertBringhurst → u/[deleted]]

It's not even that we want them to lose.

I do.

[u/Mixels → u/[deleted]]

I suspect the Pentagon is all sorts of interested in costing them as much as possible on their way out. US military has long seen Russia as an enemy, and I can't imagine they'd miss an opportunity to beat them to a pulp by proxy.

[u/DoomGoober → u/Mixels]

Destroying billions of dollars of Russian field equipment: check.

Destroying large portions of Russia's air force: Check.

Killing Russian military commanders: Check.

Killing Wagner group mercenaries and getting their commanders to commit war crimes so Wagner group can be sanctioned: Check.

Killing lots of Russians of fighting age that have not fled: Check.

Possibly making it so Putin won't win his fiftieth term in office: Check.

No active duty American soldiers coming home in body bags: Check.

Cynical but a military accountant would say that America is getting a pretty good deal.

[u/ITaggie → u/DoomGoober]

Cynical but a military accountant would say that America is getting a pretty good deal.

This is what a lot of people online don't get. We aren't just funding Ukraine to help a country defend their sovereignty, but to absolutely devastate the Russian military while testing out the equipment we designed specifically to counter Russia, all without costing NATO lives (which might make it politically untenable). This is a fantastic opportunity for NATO.

[u/aspirationalcarguy → u/ITaggie]

We get to do both which is awesome. This is one of those rare times where moral high ground coincides with smiting your enemy. Doesn't happen often. Glad we are helping. I hated amassing all that seemingly superfluous military hardware. Now happy as a clam to see it being used for its index purpose.

Just wish the poor Ukrainians and even the poor dumb Russian conscripts didn't have to die en masse for one guys delusions.

[u/Infernalism → u/aspirationalcarguy]

There's a clip from Babylon 5, a great sci-fi show btw, where one of the politicians there says something in regards to rallying alien races to the defense of Earth: "Politics and morality on the same side? That doesn't happen every day!"

[u/SomeGuyNamedPaul → u/ITaggie]

And what we're "spending" in all this is the existing equipment that was bought a long time ago for the express purpose of being used against Russia and their sphere.

[u/Mothringer → u/ITaggie]

It's also a really effective advertisement to drive demand for American weapon systems among the countries we are willing to sell to.

[u/joepjah → u/DoomGoober]

You can add: 'fighting awar by proxy so we can safely "fieldtest" our equipment against Russian equipment as well.' This is a field day for the Western military industrial complex.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I want Russia to face an utter defeat, simply withdrawing from Ukraine is not enough. They have to be so weakened that they cannot invade another country again. They must also return the hundreds of thousands of kidnapped Ukrainian children. Ukraine can be rebuilt without Russia paying reparations but the most precious and invaluable thing of all is the the Ukrainian children.

[u/notb665 → u/[deleted]]

To be frank, the West surely wants Russia to lose. And not only that, we want them to lose slowly. It’s boiling the Frog. Hit them too early too hard they may have pulled their leg back and tried it again some ten years later. But now those legs get slowly crushed to the point of Russia not being able to fight another war in this century.

[u/Lofteed]

Nothing escapes the keen inquiring minds at the Kremlin

[u/RobertJ93 → u/Lofteed]

It took them months to come up with this assessment too.

[u/DarthNihilus_501st → u/RobertJ93]

I can't wait for them to publish their research paper and thesis on this matter as well.

[u/AltruisticBudget4709 → u/DarthNihilus_501st]

and the next great novel “war… in pieces”

[u/DCS_Sport → u/DarthNihilus_501st]

Until it’s leaked on r/warthunder

[u/budakat → u/Lofteed]

Russia: Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are too fast. I would catch it.

[u/m4inbrain → u/budakat]

I, too, am extraordinarily humble.

[u/MindlessFail → u/m4inbrain]

Do not EVER call me a thesaurus!

[u/N1CET1M → u/MindlessFail]

I’ve mastered the ability of standing so incredibly still that I become invisible to the eye.

[u/Nixplosion → u/N1CET1M]

I have Famously huge turds!

[u/tamsui_tosspot → u/Nixplosion]

That's what you get from eating so many zargnuts.

[u/SomeWeirdoOnTheNet → u/tamsui_tosspot]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE ZARGNUTS!

[u/SchighSchagh → u/Lofteed]

And are they admitting NATO would absolutely stomp them in a direct war if mere NATO tanks are an existential threat?

[u/WhoKnowsNotUs → u/SchighSchagh]

Oh c'mon even Putin realizes this

[u/Ippus_21 → u/SchighSchagh]

They might as well. It's not like everyone knows it now or anything, after their main advance got stomped by some under-equipped Ukrainians in the early days of the invasion.

[u/nightwing2000 → u/Ippus_21]

They couldn't even take Kharkiv, 20 miles from the Russian border.

Plus their brilliant planning and smart officers - "What's the problem with us digging trenches and raising dust around Chernobyl? Everything seems fine, nice and quiet."

[u/CriticalPolitical → u/Lofteed]

Putin: “What?! The Ukrainians are fighting back?! They are trying to make us lose on purpose!”

Yes man: “Insightful observation, sir.”

[u/jaxonya → u/CriticalPolitical]

"Abusive alcoholic boyfriend cries when her bigger, older brothers show up to beat the shit out of him. More news at 8"

[u/wrosecrans → u/jaxonya]

The brothers aren't even showing up. We are just saying that they can borrow a baseball bat and have $20.

[u/jaxonya → u/wrosecrans]

Yeah that's a pretty good touch up on my analogy. I like that

[u/herberstank → u/Lofteed]

Intellectually speaking they've gotta be scraping the bottom of the vodka barrel at this point. Anyone with multiple functioning neurons has bailed out long ago.

[u/BisquickNinja → u/herberstank]

Or they have been ousted, sent to the gulag or taken care of....

[u/Aceticon → u/herberstank]

Or keep their mouths shut and go along with whatever the "great leader" says as that's the only intelligent way to keep their snout in that specific trough and not end up defenestrated or suicided with two bullets to the back of the head.

[u/TheDocJ → u/Aceticon]

That is itself a very risky strategy - Great Leaders are seldom prepared to accept responsibility when their dumb ideas get the predictable results. "Comrade, you said that this was a great idea, and look how it hs turned out. You are the weakest link, goodbye."

[u/Aceticon → u/TheDocJ]

I reckon they use the very same "shit only flows downwards" method as the "great leader" and blame their own underlings for the flawed implementations of all those otherwise masterful plans...

[u/Aurora_Fatalis → u/Lofteed]

Top minds.

TOP. MINDS.

[u/Selisch → u/Lofteed]

The Kremlin Gremlin

[u/Kewenfu]

Russia can still CHOOSE to leave Ukraine and avoid defeat.

[u/PretendsHesPissed → u/Kewenfu]

Nah. They were defeated when they failed to hold their precious airport, failed to capture Kyiv, and poisoned themselves in the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone.

russia is the new "This is what winning looks like."

[u/Ferris_Wheel_Skippy → u/PretendsHesPissed]

russia is the new "This is what winning looks like."

honestly, as someone who has studied Russian history...this has kind of always been how they promote themselves lol

it's a huge reason why Victory Day (the end of WW2) is a BIG deal. Probably the biggest holiday after New Year's. They need to tell everyone around them who cares that they were the "ultimate winners" in World war 2

if you look at their military record, it's really an ongoing clusterfuck of hilariously pathetic military botch-ups: Crimean War, Russo-Japanese War, early parts of WW1, the Invasion of Afghanistan, the first Cechen War. They obviously had some level of success since they were a world power for a while, but holy fuck have they had some major screw-ups.

[u/pulzeguy → u/Ferris_Wheel_Skippy]

The good ol Baltic fleet journey to Japan is still my favorite Russian military misadventure

[u/HoneyBadgeSwag → u/pulzeguy]

Go on…

[u/Lynthelia → u/HoneyBadgeSwag]

They sailed their fleet from the Baltic to Vladivostok to fight the Japanese. On the way they shot at a British fishing boat because they "thought it Japanese" (in the Baltic???) which got them banned from using the Suez.

In the end, they sailed halfway around the world just to get absolutely fucking stomped by Japan in quite possibly the most one-sided naval battle ever, then had to crawl several thousand miles back home in utter defeat.

(E: As several have mentioned, there's hilarious parts I didn't recount and parts I got a little wrong just reciting the basics from memory. Look it up, the Battle of Tsushima. It's a pretty crazy moment in history.)

[u/jdeo1997 → u/Lynthelia]

It was the Baltic (no casualties) and the North Sea (2 british fishermen were killed and an unnarmed fishing boat sunk at the cost of a russian orthodox priest and at least one russian sailer also being killed by friendly fire), with the latter costing them access from the Suez

[u/thingamajig1987 → u/jdeo1997]

So their k/d was 2/2 against an unarmed opponent? Damn lol

[u/cgn-38 → u/thingamajig1987]

The whole voyage is odd. If they made a movie out of it. No one would believe it.

[u/Dont_Waver → u/cgn-38]

I could see Wes Anderson pulling it off

[u/SnooRecipes4434 → u/thingamajig1987]

They were very lucky that that Britain did not declare war and sink them as they were allied with Japan at the time. It was a close run thing as well.

From the wiki, The Royal Navy prepared for war, with 28 battleships of the Home Fleet being ordered to raise steam and prepare for action, while British cruiser squadrons shadowed the Russian fleet as it made its way through the Bay of Biscay and down the coast of Portugal.

[u/THElaytox → u/thingamajig1987]

My favorite part of the wiki: "greater loss of life was avoided only because the Russian gunnery was highly inaccurate"

[u/restre145555 → u/thingamajig1987]

No no no its so much worse than that. if memory serves several ships crashed into one another at launch in an utter cluster fuck and took it one cruiser off the bat the British fishing boat incident was not the only fishing boat incident mostly though they missed the boats so no actions were taken and to top it all off The fishing boat incident was far from the only friendly fire incident. My favorite is when approaching Japan the admiral in charge decided to put together a target practice drill by having a ship tow a moving target on a VERY long tether somehow they managed to never hit the target and continuously hit the ship pulling it.

[u/JustASFDCGuy → u/jdeo1997]

That "mistake" sounds suspiciously like, "I'm all hopped up on Mountain Dew and I just want to shoot something."

[u/Obi_wan_pleb → u/jdeo1997]

They didn't lose access to the suez canal. The Russians though that the newer ships wouldn't be able to pass through the canal due to their draught and they split the fleet.

The older ships went via the suez canal and the newer ships rounded the cape of good hope https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima

[u/bcd_is_me → u/Lynthelia]

The best part imo is that they shot up a number of civilian ships en route to Japan because "what if they're Japanese" but when they reached Japan they immediately revealed themselves to a Japanese patrol boat because "what if it's not Japanese" and then got annihilated as a result.

[u/MINIMAN10001 → u/bcd_is_me]

Honestly this whole story was such peak stupidity every single step of the way wondering "I guess that's what happens if you send out one of your dumbest on a long mission" who knows maybe they became delirious during their journey due to malnutrition and became unable to mentally function?

[u/pwnedbyscope → u/Lynthelia]

You left out the best part, the Russians were scared shirtless as you said of Japanese torpedo boats so they shot at two fishing trawlers who were sent to deliver a message to the admiral of the fleet, before the even left the Baltic. Then they shot at small group british fishing vessels off the coast of Britain actually managing to sink one, while also damaging two of thier own.

Anyway, the best part after sailing around Africa having a few more incidents of opening fire on random fishing vessels along the way the fleet approached japan. Finally they came across an actual Japanese ship, who they promptly determined to be Russian. Completely revealing themselves to and then they were stomped by Japanese navy.

Also forgot to mention since they were kinda upset about having to sail around Africa they decided it would be a good idea to try and brighten their spirits, by stopping at Madagascar and bringing aboard a bunch of random animals including a fucking crocodile, and a venomous snake who bit a senior officer. And that's not even all the crazy shit that happened on this dumb voyage

[u/THElaytox → u/pwnedbyscope]

Good Lord, this definitely deserves to have a movie made and it needs to be slapstick comedy along the lines of Death of Stalin

[u/tsrich → u/Lynthelia]

They ended up shooting at their own ships as part of the fishing vessel battle, and did some damage.

[u/czPsweIxbYk4U9N36TSE → u/Lynthelia]

Wow, you greatly undersold just how fucking hilariously incompetent they were

Some highlights: They fought a "battle" against some British fishing boats, mistaking them for Japanese torpedo boats.... on the other side of the world from the war... and they lost that battle... and that's about the most competent they were in their entire voyage.

[u/olhonestjim → u/HoneyBadgeSwag]

https://youtu.be/yzGqp3R4Mx4

[u/bewarethesloth → u/olhonestjim]

Hahaha loved that, thanks for posting

[u/AikiYun → u/bewarethesloth]

For an indepth 2 part version, check out Drachinifel's Voyage of the Damned video.

[u/Impossible-Bison8055 → u/AikiYun]

“Do you see Torpedo Boats?”

[u/Stepside79 → u/AikiYun]

for the lazy

[u/Redd575 → u/HoneyBadgeSwag]

The Japanese fleet destroyed Russia's entire Pacific fleet and lost something silly like 3 people (people, not vessels). My exact stats may be off but it is considered one of if not the most one sided major naval engagement.

[u/GenerikDavis → u/Redd575]

You're a bit hyperbolic, but the actual Japanese losses are so minimal that the difference between 3 dead and the real damage is like a rounding error when comparing to the Russians.

117 dead, torpedo boats sunk for the Japanese. That's 255 tonnage in ships sunk.

5,045 dead, 26 ships sunk or captured including 11 battleships of various classes for the Russians. 143,232 tonnage in ships sunk.

43 times the casualties and 560+ times the tonnage lost. And I can't stress enough how devastating losing battleships was in those days. A battleship was a huge investment at the time. Not quite on the magnitude of if the US lost an aircraft carrier today, but maybe like 1/3 that.

This is arguably in the top 5 most decisive naval battles of all time, and yeah, very possibly the most lopsided. It was also the first major defeat of a major European power by a non-European power in modern history.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima

E: Typo

[u/dragonatorul → u/GenerikDavis]

The only similarly lopsided battles I can think of are the early Rome-Carthage naval battles.

[u/palmtwee → u/dragonatorul]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Manila_Bay

One American sailor died… of illness…

[u/tcw84 → u/dragonatorul]

Trafalgar was so decisive that no one dared challenge the Royal Navy for a century.

[u/spinfip → u/Redd575]

You're skipping straight to the battle. The journey of the Baltic Fleet to its eventual resting place off Korea is an incredible story.

[u/vonindyatwork → u/spinfip]

Yup. Nearly lost a battle to unarmed fisherman off the coast of Britain barely a few days into the trip..

[u/spinfip → u/vonindyatwork]

And that was before they got into the morphine and put crocodiles on the ship!

[u/berubem → u/Redd575]

A lot of the Russian fleet blew up on their own underwater mines, right? Including the ship with the only map of sais mine field, if I remember correctly. Pretty big screw up.

[u/whoami_whereami → u/Redd575]

Japan lost 3 torpedo boats and 116 men at the Battle of Tsushima. Russia lost 8 battleships (and a whole bunch of smaller vessels) and 5000 men.

Although aside from this one engagement the whole war wasn't quite as lopsided. Over all Japan actually lost slightly more men than Russia did, and they lost two battleships as well.

TBF though, back then noone in the west thought that Japan would win this war (and probably not even Japan itself given that they offered a favorable peace deal to Russia early on). Russia had the fourth largest navy in the world at the time, after the UK, France and Germany. While Japan had only fought its first modern war a few years prior against Qing dynasty China which had failed in its attempts to modernize its military in the wake of the Opium Wars (where they had been completely subjugated by Britain and France).

[u/KnucklesMcGee → u/Ferris_Wheel_Skippy]

Russia is pretty butt hurt when someone else gets a lifeline of "Lend Lease" supplies.

[u/Jeynarl → u/PretendsHesPissed]

Don’t forget their late flagship of the black sea fleet, the Moskva

[u/pulzeguy → u/Jeynarl]

which was willingly sent out with almost all of its missile defense systems down, as well as the radar switched off due to being unable to use it while using communications.

Those 18-20 year old conscripts in the lower deck didn’t even know they were being attacked until their quarters were on fire and flooding.

Death to Putin.

[u/TimeZarg → u/pulzeguy]

Lazerpig did a nice video summarizing just how fucked the Moskva was from a performance standpoint. Engines couldn't run at full, insufficient firefighting equipment, the missile defense and radar problems you mentioned, on and on. It's amazing the thing wasn't sunk earlier, TBH.

[u/Thurwell → u/pulzeguy]

There's a good chance no one on that ship knew they were being attacked until the missile hit. Russian ships don't have any automated defense systems or alarms. Some conscript has to be actively looking at the screens and notice the missiles coming in. If he's off getting coffee or dozed off, nobody has any warning. A system which works fine during drills when you know you're about to be attacked, but is pretty worthless when you need to be vigilant for months on end.

[u/pm-me-ur-fav-undies → u/Jeynarl]

Moskva got told to fuck off by some dudes guarding an island, and she proceeded to sink while supposedly carrying a piece of the true cross onboard, all while fighting a country that scuttled it's only sizable ship at the beginning of the invasion.

I think Moskva's story is a good encapsulation of how this war has been going.

[u/Grokent → u/pm-me-ur-fav-undies]

Russia is currently losing a naval war to a country that has no navy.

[u/shorey66 → u/Grokent]

A country that built Russia's navy for them and also has no navy of their own.

[u/MostJudgment3212 → u/Kewenfu]

That would count as defeat for Putin, he wouldn’t survive it. Russia is a ruthless country. He will sacrifice millions and will never give up.

[u/davew111]

Putin said Russian weapons are "decades ahead" of anything NATO has, so why are they fussed about a few dozen tanks?

[u/iiSamJ → u/davew111]

Because in reality they are using cold war weapons just to get by and the Kremlin knows they don't stand a chance in a real boots on ground style war.

[u/Astyanax1 → u/iiSamJ]

until they invaded Ukraine, the west was fearful of their army. now, the west laughs. hell, the Canadian Army could likely tell Moscow within a week at this point

[u/kevInquisition → u/Astyanax1]

Don't fuck with the Canadians. They might seem nice on the surface but give them a hockey stick and it's game over for you

[u/crathis → u/kevInquisition]

If you want to learn some fun info, look up Canadian troops reputations in WW2

[u/Wigu90]

Hey, you can always get the fuck out and call it a tie, you know?

It'll still be embarrassing as shit, but probably better than what's coming.

[u/TopFloorApartment → u/Wigu90]

They could even have a big victory speech on their aircraft carrier with a Mission Accomplished banner and call it a win. It's not like their domestic media would report anything different.

[u/[deleted] → u/TopFloorApartment]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/Jaspador → u/TopFloorApartment]

Do they even have a carrier left?

[u/MeusRex → u/Jaspador]

Does a burning boat with a cope slope count?

[u/smilesandlaughter]

A badly paraphrased joke from Zelenksy himself!

"2 russian friend meet at a bar after a year apart. One of them, a priest has been away on a religious mission the last year.

He asks his friend who remained in Russia, what on earth is going on, I hear there is a war?

His friend replies, yes, we're at war with NATO! We've lost thousands of tanks, tens of thousands of soldiers and our economy is tanking!

Oh shit exclaims the priest and what about NATO?

"They haven't showed up yet"

[u/iwellyess → u/smilesandlaughter]

That is a damned good joke

[u/SomeoneStoleMyBacon → u/iwellyess]

wasn't he a comedian before becoming a politician?

[u/logi → u/SomeoneStoleMyBacon]

He was and here is a great podcast episode from well before the war about his background

https://www.npr.org/2019/12/04/784746019/whose-ukraine-is-it-anyway

They did a repeat with context more recently, but I'm not finding it right now. "Please comment below".

Also, the TV series that made him president in a weird recursive life imitation of art is on Netflix. I've only watched one episode but it was good.

https://www.netflix.com/title/80119382

[u/Common_Technologies → u/smilesandlaughter]

https://theweek.com/russo-ukrainian-war/1019340/ukraines-zelensky-tells-david-letterman-a-russia-joke-during-kyiv

​

What a legend.

[u/Novel_Ad927]

If they had kept their shabby, rapist, looting, civilian killing army at home there would have been no sanctions, no dead soldiers. And they could still threaten and bluster, but not now that we see what a shit show they are..

[u/NH787 → u/Novel_Ad927]

The bluff has been called.

[u/xavia91]

"hurr durr the west sending tanks won't change anything, we will still destroy Ukraine"
"Wait why did you send them tanks? thats not fair!!!"

[u/Incompatibert → u/xavia91]

"We have already destroyed 200 of the 100 tanks the West has sent into Ukraine that are unfairly beating the shit out of us."

[u/rldogamusprime]

Russia for the last ten years - "We're at war with the West!!!"

Russia now - "Stop trying to defeat us!!"

[u/ObjectivelyAOK → u/rldogamusprime]

This is key. Putin has made it absolutely clear - for more than a decade - he views NATO as a strategic challenge and wanted to overturn the US dominated world order. More recently, the Russian government has framed the war as being against NATO and barely acknowledged Ukraine as an adversary with its own national and strategic interests. Now they feign shock that NATO aims to defeat them by supporting Ukraine. Welcome to the Russian world. A crumbling former imperial with an economy the size of Spain seeking to dictate Ukraine‘s political future and redimension the world order to suit their purpose.

[u/Stwike_Him_Centuwion → u/ObjectivelyAOK]

100% agree.

I just always wonder when I see such comments if (in this case, Spain) sees these comparisons and says “Our economy is as big as Russia’s!”, or if they’re more like “C’mon, guys, you’re making us feel like crap over here.”

[u/Greedy-Knowledge6043]

Arming Ukraine with back room weaponry has been probably the cheapest way for NATO and “the west” to effectively cut the Russian military at their knees. And they’re doing so without sending a single soldier or firing a single round.

[u/Killerderp → u/Greedy-Knowledge6043]

And a lot of that gear is stuff they consider "old" from my understanding. That's the wild thing to me.

[u/Nightsong → u/Killerderp]

The Leopard and Abrams tanks are from the 70s and 80s while HIMARS are from the 90s. Even the Patriot missile defense system is from the 80s. Mind you, all of that tech has been upgraded over the years but the original foundations are decades old.

[u/PvtPill → u/Nightsong]

The Leopard 2A6 they are sending now is from around 2000 though

[u/luckyninja864]

Maybe you shouldn’t invade sovereign countries…

[u/flodnak → u/luckyninja864]

As the poet hath wrote: Don't start nothin', won't be nothin'.

[u/[deleted]]

This statement from Russia is dumb even by Russian standards. Like, what did they think the world was doing? Secretly supporting Russia by sending weapons to Ukraine????

It’s almost like they put out the first thing that comes to their minds becuase they’ve run out of anything important to say and just want to post to stay relevant.

[u/smmstv → u/[deleted]]

The intended audience isn't us, it's their own people. Kinda gives you a glimpse into what the propaganda is telling them.

[u/TheMindfulnessShaman → u/[deleted]]

It's just them calling the 'complaint center' and airing a list of grievances that are entirely self-inflicted and anachronistically barbaric.

"We just wanted to invade as far west as we could and make it like us!"

"Why are you soo Russophobic?!"

[u/PriscillaRain → u/TheMindfulnessShaman]

So he wants to speak to the war manager

[u/Hayes77519]

"It's almost like you don't want us to kill these innocent people? I mean, JEEZ."

[u/Furitaurus]

They do realise that even if nato as an organisation didn’t exist we would all still be helping Ukraine as we have currently been? Nothing we have done has been under the banner of NATO, it’s either been as individual nations or as the eu.

[u/deeringc → u/Furitaurus]

Yeah, but now Russia doesn't get to pick us all off one by one. No fair!

[u/RedLion40]

Are these people literally insane? That's like a bully saying "They're fighting back! They're not supposed to do that!"

[u/koshgeo]

Day 335 of the 3-day special military operation

Dear diary:

I think western countries may be trying to inflict defeat on us.

Also, I'm getting suspicious that the Ukrainian people may not want to become part of Russia.

[u/Verypoorman]

The thing is, Russia is defeated. They just haven’t come to grips with it yet. They can’t rid them of the delusion that they can come out on top of this.

[u/DeeHawk]

What else would be the point of sending weapons? It's not like there is another incentive. Stating the obvious, but I guess it beats the obvious lies.

​

On Monday, Moscow's foreign minister Sergey Lavrov warned that Russia and the West are no longer in a "hybrid war" but almost a "real one".

Yeah that must be real scary for them, considering it wasn't supposed to be war.

Drooling idiots.

[u/dalerian → u/DeeHawk]

Russia has shown it can’t beat Ukraine. Why does it think it has a chance against Ukraine + NATO at the same time?

[u/maybehelp244 → u/DeeHawk]

As the joke goes in this "real war".

Two Russian men are standing at the bus stop when the first says to the other, "Have you heard?! We are at war with NATO! We've already lost 120,000 men!"

The second responds, "Oh my God, that's awful! How many has NATO lost?!"

The first says, "They haven't showed up yet."

[u/noxii3101]

Russia chose to invade Ukraine for no reason other than territorial expansion. The world looked away the myriad of other times Russia has needlessly invaded former soviet states to shore up obedience to the Kremlin. Not this time.

Russia can leave Ukraine any time it wants to. They are the ones prolonging this war. The UN charter is pretty clear - you just don't get to claim another countries land because you think you have historical right to it.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/BrightSkies42]

This was apparent from the first dollar of aid we sent.

Edit: I did not expect this comment to blow up so much. I just like making snarky remarks about adversarial nations like Russia.

Edit2: Thank you, kind Leprechaun!

[u/UnlikelyRabbit4648 → u/BrightSkies42]

Honestly, this wasn't some big secret...nearly every country in the world has committed to saying "Russia cannot be allowed to win".

The writing was literally written on the wall and projected into the sky using a bat signal.

[u/BrightSkies42 → u/UnlikelyRabbit4648]

It was as subtle as a punch from Superman.

[u/kyel566 → u/UnlikelyRabbit4648]

To Russia’s defense they lie so much they assume others do to

[u/SkyNetIsNow → u/kyel566]

Also, they got off easy when they invaded and annexed territory in 2014. They expected a similar response when they launched the full invasion last year.

[u/Gisschace → u/UnlikelyRabbit4648]

They’re playing the victim for propaganda reasons

[u/Calavar → u/BrightSkies42]

It's all about the messaging at home. The war is a complete and utter humiliation of the Russian military by a country with 1/5 the population and 1/10 the military budget, but if you squint hard enough and reframe it as Russia just barely holding on against the full weight of NATO, all the sudden it doesn't look nearly as bad.

[u/nav17 → u/Calavar]

Which is still baffling because Russia and its shills have been saying they can crush NATO in weeks. Yet with every setback they blame NATO and cry about how they're losing because of NATO. To the autocratic mind I guess two realities are possible.

[u/GarrettGSF → u/nav17]

Well, just a couple of days ago, Putin‘s favourite „journalist“ said that Russia should occupy Berlin once more and Paris as well for sending aid to Ukraine. And to never leave there again. Oh, and also to re-occupy (parts of) Finland to keep them and Sweden in check. And to oust all American troops from Europe.

Yes, they are completely delusional.

[u/ConditionOne → u/nav17]

Nah, they know exactly what they're doing. "The enemy is both weak and strong" is one of the pillars of propaganda these days. I mean, look at the rhetoric used toward illegal immigrants. They're so hardworking that they're stealing your jobs but are also somehow lazy freeloaders who provide no benefit to the system.

[u/robodrew → u/ConditionOne]

"The enemy is both weak and strong" is one of the pillars of propaganda these days.

Been that way for a long time. It's exactly the rhetoric that Hitler used.

[u/RFSandler → u/robodrew]

Wasn't it used against Carthage? (Which must be destroyed)

[u/GourangaPlusPlus → u/nav17]

To the autocratic mind I guess two realities are possible.

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them" - George Orwell, 1984

[u/IglooDweller → u/nav17]

The equation is even worse than that. Remember that for all the equipment we sent, none of the Ukrainian soldier has the level of training with them that the NATO soldier would have. So if Russia is barely managing to hold against people with good weapon but without training, think about what would happen is the soldier are proefficient with the weapon they use and have had more than a crash course with them…

[u/cambios_dios → u/nav17]

They are not even fighting a full strength NATO. Its NATO lending equipment to Ukraine. If Russia did have to fight NATO full on, it wouldn't last any more than a few days at best. The only thing that would keep Russia in the game would be their willingness to throw bodies onto the battle field.

[u/venomandvaccine → u/Calavar]

But he's not the full weight of NATO, NATO is just breathing and tickling them.

[u/Evoluxman → u/venomandvaccine]

Of course, but Russian propaganda frames it as a war against all of NATO to make their defeats "less humiliating"

If nukes weren't at play Russia would have already been Serbia'd and forced to surrender, NATO forces are overwhelmingly stronger than Russia and they have depleted their border forces to shove them into the Ukrainian meatgrinder.

[u/lionseatcake → u/BrightSkies42]

Of course it was apparent, it was the whole point.

Country A attacks country B. Country B's allies send it resources.

Country A, "Whatre you trying to do, defeat us?"

Yes, that is literally the entire point. Also, water will get you wet and the sky is blue

[u/Ok_Breadfruit_5933]

That's literally what my 5-year old nephew said last week, while playing the dumbest game of cards I've ever seen. 'But you're not letting me wiiin.'

[u/Slusny_Cizinec]

Well yes, that's the point, thanks for noticing.

[u/Green-Collection-968]

... "trying"?

[u/BaronVonStrad317]

They snatched defeat from the jaws of victory the moment they tried to take more than Crimea.

[u/rugbyj → u/BaronVonStrad317]

As of 2020...

1. EU undermined and dependent on Russian oil
   
2. US in internal turmoil
   
3. Torn apart by Brexit
   
4. Ex-soviet states in quietly subservient to Russian influence
   
5. Ukraine was Trumps blackmail buddy led by a hapless actor
   

As of 2023...

1. EU focusing on arms manufacture against a common enemy, survived Winter whilst weening off Russian gas with Summer to look forward to
   
2. US regime happily feeding their MIC new orders whilst shipping their old stuff East
   
3. UK as ever a thorn in someone's side
   
4. Ex-soviet states in various states of civil war and flat out mutiny
   
5. Ukraine armed to the teeth and rallying around their war chief

[u/Badmeestert]

Yes Russia

[u/Nerevarine91]

I mean… yes. I thought everyone was already being pretty clear about that. What did they think the sanctions and all the other aid to Ukraine were about?