r/WhitePeopleTwitter Sep 23 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 5 Wholesome 5 Take My Energy 1 Bless Up (Pro) 1

Who makes you feel unsafe?

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u/Malijaffri Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

Really? That's absurd! Even Islam, which Christians like to vilify so much, has a rule that God can forgive almost any sin against Him; but wouldn't forgive anyone who did something to another person, without that person's prior forgiveness.

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u/rabidhamster87 Sep 23 '22

Yeah. I was raised Christian and none of the churches we ever went to mentioned anything about needing the person you've wronged to forgive you. It was only ever about getting an imaginary man in the sky's forgiveness. In hindsight, I guess that explains why so many Christians are so bad at apologies or admitting when they were wrong.

The Islam way seems much healthier for the community.

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u/Malijaffri Sep 23 '22

That said, lots of Muslims still think that they can do whatever they want and be forgiven.

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u/rabidhamster87 Sep 23 '22

That's a bummer. Guess religion itself really is the problem.

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

I believe religions is actually 99% of the World's issues and mental illinesses we're seeing today. To be afraid of god watching over you is to be fearful of living your own life.

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u/PlanOk2801 Sep 23 '22

Wtf kind of churches did you go to, I guess different denominations teach it differently, but I’m Episcopalian and we were always taught that we should always seek forgiveness of the other people before seeking forgiveness from God

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

There lies the issue of christianity, too many different denominations that no one can truly call themselves "christians:".

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u/PlanOk2801 Sep 23 '22

Petition to start our own denomination and call it “truthest”

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

I would say it's time for Alchemy to return because in the end it's about acceptance. I accept all no matter what they all are.

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u/rabidhamster87 Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

Baptist, non-denominational, Assembly of God, and Presbyterian.

I even went to an assembly of god Christian school for 2 years.

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u/PM_ME_KOREAN_GIRLS Sep 23 '22

The Bible also says to basically forgive the same person an infinite number of times but that seems glossed over for some reason

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

Technically, if you forgive you at least will have a better path to your life and peace no matter what, however what most people misinterpret is that "forgive but never forget for when they do it again, you may never forgive again". That implies you should never let them do it again.

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u/rabidhamster87 Sep 23 '22

Because we're not victim blaming here. It's entirely up to the victim whether they want to forgive or not.

We're just talking about the perpetrator seeking forgiveness right now.

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u/Eponymous-Username Sep 23 '22

It sounds like there'd be even less forgiveness going around. Not only do you have to get the forgiveness of a totally disinterested party, but also that of the person you actually wronged?

I think I'd remove at least one of those two from the equation as well. We might try the sky daddy this time, if we're shooting for meaningful apologies.

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u/rabidhamster87 Sep 23 '22

There can't be less forgiveness than zero. How do you get forgiveness if you never ask for it from anyone real in the first place?

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u/Eponymous-Username Sep 23 '22

That is a very fair rebuttal

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u/Ateretkoalaqueen Sep 23 '22

If this is what the Christians in your circles are saying and doing, they’re not reading the Bible. They’re not living godly lives as the Bible commands. The Bible says Jesus told men if you are at the temple offering a gift to the Lord and there remember something your brother has against you, you are to leave your gift there right away and go make the issue right and then return to offer your gift to God. So that sinning Monday to Saturday will not give them the forgiveness they want on Sunday. God knows the intents and* hearts of man, He isn’t dumb to fall for that trick. In fact, in another place in the New Testament, there is a warning to Christians who continue in sin after converting. Saying they are trampling the blood of Christ and how much greater a punishment they will have for knowing the truth and yet not doing what is right. So there’s that for ya.

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u/rabidhamster87 Sep 23 '22

Ah yes. The "those Christians aren't real Christians" defense. Thank you for coming in and proving my point from my other comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/xli6dw/z/ipk62e8

This isn't Christians "in my circle." This is Christians. Period.

This is over 3 DECADES of exposure to Christianity... This is what I've seen them preaching while going to different churches across two different states, different denominations, watching Christians on TV, and even attending a Christian school.

You need to start holding your own accountable instead of sticking your head in the sand and trying to pretend this is just a "few bad apples."

This is what it means to be a modern day Christian and if you call yourself a Christian, these are the people you choose to associate yourself with.

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u/Ateretkoalaqueen Sep 23 '22

I’m sorry I cannot call out the Christians you’ve encountered. But I have indeed called out other Christians I’ve met that have lived such as you say. Some receive it and are gracious, others are resentful and say it’s impossible to stop doing bad.

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u/Ateretkoalaqueen Sep 23 '22

I agree that most churches don’t say you have to get forgiveness from people you wrong. But from my own personal reading of the Bible, I know that what many churches teach is very wrong to what the Bible says and most people don’t actually read the Bible to even know what it says.

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u/itgoesdownandup Sep 23 '22

What happens if people don't give their forgiveness? Because some people will never forgive. (Which is totally valid)

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u/Malijaffri Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

I don't know if this is canonical or not, because I have only heard it verbally from my parents, and have yet to find a source.

Essentially, you can try to locate them in a sort of pre-Judgement lobby-esque thing; and try to either beg them for their forgiveness, or offer to trade some of your deeds for theirs (you give some of your good deeds for some of their bad ones), and basically try to trade for forgiveness.

Again, take this with a grain of salt.

Edited to add: Some of u/Lhinhar 's points are valid, but not all. The ball is completely in the court of the person who is wronged. They can forgive or not, their choice. But if it is something minor, it's not necessarily a huge deal because your deeds are compared and weighed on Judgment Day. If you've been too bad, then too bad for you. If you've been just bad enough that someone's forgiveness can tip the scales in your favour, then it's best for you to try to get that forgiveness.

Edit 2: Also, everyone is supposed to remember literally everything they have ever done on Judgement Day.

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

Then god will never forgive them for some sins is too grievious to forgive.

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u/itgoesdownandup Sep 23 '22

I don't mean to be a jerk here. But do you actually know? I was more or less talking to the person who seemed familiar with Islam. Or maybe other people who may be familiar. I mean you said above that you were raised in a Christian household.

Also ngl disagree. People don't have to forgive their abusers. That's super toxic. But to say some acts are so bad that it will always be held against them goes against people learning and changing for good.

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

You just answered your question, some people just cannot forgive what was done that others cannot do it again.

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u/itgoesdownandup Sep 23 '22

How did I answer my own question? My question was about what happens if one doesn't get forgiveness. Amd in my last comment I said if they were always held accountable and it's something they couldn't make up for then it's not fair and actually I think is unethical. The abused doesn't have to forgive. But having the God also not forgive you just means that there is nothing you can do. You can't move past that action. You can't make progress or be a better person in the eyes of your God.

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

That's where god can judge you in the end based on if you did repent, if the victim doesn't or cannot forgive then god will deal with how the perpertator changes his life, the saying goes "forgive and forget" is false, the true quote is "forgive and never forget for if done again you may never forgive again" so that means after the second time it is up to god to judge you.

The person may never have to forgive you to make you truly change permanently to do better and leaves it to god to decide if you are worthy of his forgiveness in spite of it.

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u/itgoesdownandup Sep 23 '22

I mean yes agreed. But I feel like what you would said in this comment directly contradicts.

"God doesn't forgive because some sins are too grievous" which is what you said in the first comment

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

That is what I meant, even if some forgives but they keep doing it again and again even god will turn away from it, he allows us to be able to move on but he doesn't have to allow that person who did evil things to be forgiven by him. Like Jeffery Dahmer if you will, we can forgive him but god doesn't have to because Jeffery refused to repent, god allowed us to be able to move on while exacting justice on him his way.

Why would he allow us to be tormented while accepting him into heaven? Some sins that is unrepentant is unforgiveable even by god.

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u/itgoesdownandup Sep 23 '22

Yeah I guess we are just thinking differently then. I was thinking something along the lines of someone who may have like raped or something. Obviously the victim wouldn't have to forgive, but after their crime and judicial punishment or something they like started a charity and clearly showed they moved past the action. They wanted to improve and change.

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u/armchairapathist Sep 23 '22

I’m a Christian and I don’t Vilify Islam, stop generalizing us. You don’t know us.

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u/Lhinhar Sep 23 '22

Yes I do, like I said I lived in an christian family, if you want me to be wrong then start calling christians out for hypocrisy which is more prevalent now. Even Islamists calls out other Islamists over their hypocrisy.

The bible warned that people of christian faith will follow the anti-christ so call them out on it than do nothing.

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u/Malijaffri Sep 23 '22

Obviously, I didn't mean all Christians. I meant the kind mentioned in the OP's post. Self-proclaimed "Alpha-male" Christians.