r/WhitePeopleTwitter Sep 23 '22 Silver 3 Helpful 5 Wholesome 5 Take My Energy 1 Bless Up (Pro) 1

Who makes you feel unsafe?

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u/JGauth13 Sep 23 '22

The whole alpha and beta thing is ridiculous - it’s a good thing that that convo made you uncomfortable…it means that you’re a normal human that doesn’t have to feel superior or create some fucked up testosterone fueled hierarchy to validate yourself

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u/itsadesertplant Sep 23 '22

It’s also incorrect, and the scientist who came up with it admitted as such. Wolves forced in enclosures who don’t know each other exhibit unnatural behaviors, while wolves in the wild are typically in cooperative family groups without such a strict hierarchy. But “alpha” and “beta” mythology lives on

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u/Glass_Memories Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

L. David Mech is the biologist in question. Wolves used to be almost extinct so biologists could only really observe them in captivity, that's when he wrote “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species" back in 1970. Since wolves have made a comeback and we have things like GPS trackers, he's changed his theories to reflect the new, more accurate information of how wolves really behave in the wild.

Because people have been misusing the now disproven "alpha" concept in recent years, he's been trying to get his old book pulled from circulation, but the publisher refuses. He has an article on his webpage about it.

https://davemech.org/wolf-news-and-information

Why people would assume that human social structure or behavior is anything like a wolves' in the first place can't be placed on him tho.

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u/CocoaCali Sep 23 '22

We have a dude who's world famous for comparing humans to lobsters. Some people just ain't bright.

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u/Glass_Memories Sep 23 '22

Yep, we also have an entire culture of people who think that eating soy will turn you into a woman based on a study on sheep in the 1940's. Here's a video debunking that: The Truth About Soy Boys - hbomberguy

The entire MRA/PUA, gym bro, and manosphere is riddled with pseudoscientific rubbish to suit their agenda. I Debunked the Entire Manosphere - münecat

As far as JP, he's in that crowd of nutters but he's also a fascist propagandist. Got a 3hr long video just for calling out all his bullshit. A Brief Look At Jordan Peterson - Some More News

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u/CocoaCali Sep 24 '22

I promise you this is a very short look don't check the timestamp.

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u/dat_lpn_lifetho Sep 23 '22

I thought there were alpha and beta but they were complete opposite from his original works. I though i had read that the alpha usually follows in the back of the pack so they can watch over the pack as it moves. The other less dominate males will be dispersed throughout to protect the young and old.

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u/CthulhusEngineer Sep 23 '22

My, admittedly limited, understanding is that the association with humans came largely from the furry community.

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u/RestlessARBIT3R Sep 23 '22

I mean, sure, that might be true of wolves, but what about other species? Alpha males do exist in the animal kingdom. Just look at any species with a harem… Elephant Seals for example. The male that can fight off all other sexually mature males gets to breed with all of the females in the group.

I’m sure it doesn’t happen with chimps (our most recent common ancestor), but Silverback gorillas do actually form harems as well. Great apes aren’t even that far off from the human lineage.

Now, humans are a very community-oriented tribal species, so I’m not arguing that they should have alpha males, but to deny alpha males exist in the wild is false

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u/Glass_Memories Sep 23 '22

Good thing no one made that claim then.

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u/TralfamadorianZooPet Sep 23 '22

Oh so you mean he's a flip-flopper. As an Alpha Male I view that as a real Beta mentality. An Alpha sticks to his guns regardless of what som labcoat says /s

In all seriousness thanks for the TIL.

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u/JGauth13 Sep 23 '22

Thank you for saying this - I read about that recently and it’s my favorite thing to bring up whenever the “alpha” and “beta” words start flying - you can actually see they “alpha’s” brain break when you tell them 🤣

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u/AnonBubblyBowels Sep 23 '22

Ethologist here, and this is correct!

So-called alpha wolves are really just mom and dad. We refer to them as “breeding male/female” or “male/female parent.”

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u/Buick_reference3138 Sep 23 '22

It’s just taken on a completely different meaning in today’s culture. People going around calling themselves Alpha Males in 2022 aren’t doing it out of misunderstood science, they are doing it because they listen to clowns like Andrew Tate and people of his ilk.

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u/natFromBobsBurgers Sep 23 '22

testosterone fueled

I got a bunch of testosterone fueled friends. None of them use 20 year old memes to make themselves feel better about transitioning.

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u/effemerides Sep 23 '22 Gold

testosterone fueled, but with ~precision!~

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u/vishnubakthisaran Sep 23 '22

Men of Reddit, how do you control your testosterone?

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u/effemerides Sep 24 '22

"the syringe has little markings that make it easy to control the dose"

-transmen

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u/JGauth13 Sep 23 '22

…and they’re not the problem 💖 the behavior and archetype I was describing is, however, testosterone fueled.

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u/PrincelyRose Sep 23 '22

Trans guy on T here, even right after I slather testosterone gel on my shoulders like I'm trying to make bricks out of the gel I'd never call myself or anyone else an alpha male anything but ironically. It's such a stupid concept.

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u/ChainOut Sep 23 '22

I assumed when people talked about Alphas vs Betas etc that they were referencing Brave New World by Aldus Huxley